now that we have that cleared up. A CRF250R is $7999 MSRP, while the CRF250F is $4599. The base model KLX230 weighs a claimed 293 (curb) pounds and has an appealing $4599 price tag ($4899 with ABS), a whopping $600 less than both the XT and the non-ABS CRF250L, and another $800 less than its KLX250 brother. Plan to ride trails at a conservative pace, Are transitioning from a small or midsize trail bike, Are an older guy/gal getting (back) into riding off-road, Have riding experience and are confident in your control off-road, Are an aggressive trail rider on faster trails. CRF250F vs CRF250R differences. Thank you for visiting www.powersports.honda.com. (Came from the dealer with this mod already on it, I think they were using it as a demonstrator. The CRF250F has about 21 HP with a top speed of 60 mph and the CRF250R has about 39 HP with a top speed of about 70 mph in stock form, but that doesnt tell the whole story. The top speed isn't much different between the two but is noticeable on the 300s. jimmydasmoker, The next bike up after the TT-R230 in the Yamaha lineup is the WR250 but it's not really considered a beginner bike, and the MSRP is $8099, compared to $4399 for the TT-R. The 230's have a lot of torque and are easy and fun bikes to ride. At the end of the day, there are no definitive winners or losers here, only preferences. As a true Ronseal bike,the Honda does exactly what it says on the tin. If youre 200+ youll need new springs or the bike will handle poorly and be less safe. If youre 6+ and 180lbs+ it probably wont be the most comfortable platform. I had a 2008 Honda CRF230L and dual-sported it. What about adults who are just getting started? Other than this its just a set of new taller alloy bars, either cross-braced or FatBars and we are good to go on a totally transformed Honda that will still return 70mpg and run all day perfect. You have successfully joined our subscriber list. With a high-performance, liquid-cooled engine, you have more parts and more heat being produced. Many products featured on this site were editorially chosen. Stopping to not only kill the motor, but turn the ignition off and back on again, seemed to allow it to readjust. That engine is not the same as the R/X engine. Simply typing in "CRF250F horsepower" in google and the first result is: Your source is most likely talking about the 250R. travel (Rally), Pro-Link, single Showa shock absorber, preload adjustable; 9.4-in. The biggest downside for the 300 models is the demand and high price. Edit - http://www.dirtbikemagazine.com/ME2/dirmod.asp?type=news&mod=News&mid=9A02E3B96F2A415ABC72CB5F516B4C10&tier=3&nid=7D5CA9B9EB7447B4B933371B89BB148F. Want the latest in suspension for jumping and racing MX? The TT-R comes with a 90-day limited factory warranty. I'll keep up the research and post back when the bike is in my garage. We use them in Cambodia and they are a great option. The clocks are clear and easy to see, which is not true of the headlight. The KLX has some MX style presence in the car park and looks the part.
This is better for jumps and whoops, but not for tight single track trails. This allows you to ride and not annoy anyone close by because it sounds like a sewing machine going by. Don't buy the 250F and convert it into street legal. Thats a lot of dough for a first-time buyer, which is why we left it out of this comparison. Some buyers will think they're basically buying a street-er-ized version of a CRF-250R in the process. It works well on the dual-purpose guise having been given a smaller 36mm throttle body and a longer, narrower exhaust header to extend the midrange. These Honda dirt bikes have very distinct characteristics and are completely different types of bikes. Compared to the Honda and Yamaha, the KLXs suspension does a better job soaking up the bumps and doesnt run out of wheel travel nearly as soon as the Honda or Yamaha. But youll still have stiff suspension if youre an average size rider, making it harsh and uncomfortable on most trails. For more info and detailed specs, visit the manufacturer's websites: The first video shows just how many mods can be done to these bikes. Electric starting is a big help on cold mornings, or if you need to restart out on the trail. And thats before themods! Its harder to ride and will wear you out quicker, but the powerful engine is best for racing on a motocross track. It's light, simple, fuel-efficient, and features plenty of power and torque in all areas, along with smooth power deliveryideal for a wide range of rider experience. 2.75-21 in. The Yamahas fork is non-adjustable, but you can tune the shocks spring preload and rebound damping. The overall dimensions on the two bikes is compact too, maybe a little more so on the Kawi than the Honda. The suspension is quite good, too, but suffers the same issues as the CRF250Lits quite soft and bottoms easily as soon as the pace picks up. Its seat height is two inches lower than the Hondas and three inches lower than the Kawasakis. I read this somewhere. His bike is nearly new and already both rims are fooked due to the suspension. The L weighs a whooping 322 lbs. The Honda 250F is brand new so there may not be many aftermarket parts yet, but the Yamaha TT-R230 will have plenty of parts to choose from. The KLX230 is new to Kawasakis dual-sport lineup. Because I am technically comparing the 2019 CRF450L and the 2018 CRF250L against each other. Its also made of a tougher compound too our KLX inCambodiawas dropped and plastic snapped far too easily. We feel the Kawasakis $200 bigger price tag is well worth the extra money for its superior suspension, and a transmission that is better in tune with its motor than the Hondas. The 250 is very new and I think it will make a suitable similar fun bike. These Honda dirt bikes have very distinct characteristics and are completely different types of bikes. The CRF250F doesnt have a headlight, and it isnt street-legal, so if youre looking for that, the CRF250L dual-sport is more in your lane. I'd say the source IS about the 250R but in the end I think the CRF250F fits my bill and if I had the need I could easily convert it to street legal. The heavier weight makes you feel more stable, especially at high speeds. Competition is a good thing though, and hopefully Yamaha will step up to the plate and redesign the TT-R230 in the near future. I like the dual sport.. But while thats a win for the green bike,Little Red gets the vote on the powerof the stock machine as its got that little bit more bite that you need. These are not words you want to hear. The exhaust is a full Euro 3 compliant unit with an internal catalytic converter. We wouldnt dream of using this bike on our tours without modifications. Kawasaki KLX 140 Review: Which Size Model Is Best For You? The XT has changed little since its re-birth in 2013 when it got fuel injection and a few other goodies. You also have the option to opt-out of these cookies. Dirt Bike Magazine - Best selling off road motorcycle magazine. A CRF250R would be better at more open, fast-paced trails if you have the skill to ride aggressively. Having plush forks and shock make learning to ride more comfortable and forgiving because they absorb more of the rough terrain at low speeds. Fuel economy only down about 10% compared to the stock ECU. WR250R vs. CRF250L Comparison. However, Honda gives you a whole other motorcycle option in the $6299 CRF250L Rally, but thats crossing into an entirely different realm of riding. Beginner dirt bikes come in a wide variety of sizes, and the full-size beginner dirt bike from Yamaha is the TT-R230, with Honda offering the brand-new fuel-injected CRF250F for 2019. With the big K often struggling with Suzuki to keep up with Honda and Yamaha, the need to streamline their range must be ever present. Whats the best mods to make to a KLX and in what order of benefit per dollar? Honda, could release a slew of changes to the 2019 CRF250L when compared against the 2018 CRF250L and if that happens then I will update this comparison page as well as break down all of the changes to the 2019 CRF250L VS 2018 CRF250L for you guys . What kind of riding are you trying to do?. While most dirt bikes are pretty stinkin reliable these days, the maintenance required between these Honda 250 dirt bikes are quite a bit different, depending on how you ride. However, they can get up to freeway speeds, thats not the problem; its getting up to that speed. A quick swap on the strangling pipe that Honda have fitted to a far more free breathing FMF version releases the horses like opening all the stable doors at once. The crf250f looks really tempting to, I may wait a while until i can get a used one cheaper, or until honda updates the crf250l. In comparison the KLX250 feels much more natural. Thanks for your input, Per Anderson could you please post the company name or how I would be able to buy that aftermarket ECU in the U.S., your option seems to be the easiest way to get more power without all the other mods, thankyou, We use a unit from EJK heres the website http://electronicjetkit.com/, The klx has big potential for upgrades but it comes at a cost. The results, when matched to a new 14/45 sprocket setupare an astounding improvement over stock and release the potential in this dependable little motor. We use cookies to improve your experience on this website and so that ads you see online can be tailored to your online browsing interests. One thing to keep in mind though, the 250f is not a full size bike, more like 7/8ths, and the suspension is pretty soft, probably set up for 150-180lbs. Beginner dirt bikes come in a wide variety of sizes, and the full-size beginner dirt bike from Yamaha is the TT-R230, with Honda offering the brand-new fuel-injected CRF250F for 2019. Will you need a street legal bike? It still has enough low-end torque for trail riding, but it's also heavier than the 230 trail bike . crf250r graphics crf honda stickers decal kits 2009 crf450r crf250 sticker crf450 backgrounds 2010 decals 250r 450r. The front forks are only adjustable for compression damping, but the rear can be tweaked for preload, compression and rebound damping. Maybe you dont even know where to start, or maybe you know how to ride but arent sure if you have all the right techniques. By clicking Accept, you consent to the use of ALL the cookies. Most people rarely use all of that peak horsepower, so you want to look at the power numbers below peak and see how smooth that line is. How far? (Dont worry, we didnt forget about it entirely in this comparison, nor Kawasakis new KLX230.). It has less than 20 horsepower, but with good low-end torque, its easy to ride and great for casual trail riding. Yoshimura also makes cam for it that get even more power, 37 hp on the 300 jug i was told by the tuner but the power band is really high and torque takes a hit at low rev as its titanium thus very light. Some are good, some arent. On 5/9/2021 at 10:38 AM, jimmythumps said: When you buy through links on our site, we may earn an affiliate commission. The Honda got its first and only upgrade in 2017 since its 2012 debut, while the Kawasaki got a significant enhancement in 2018 after a brief hiatus from Kawis lineup. Great write up but Im astounded the WR250R didnt get a look in?? Great comparison, thanks! The motor is just tuned for a different power delivery that the other two. It is mandatory to procure user consent prior to running these cookies on your website. All Rights Reserved. Some mods such as an aftermarket air filter and larger sprockets aren't crazy expensive, especially if you can do the work yourself. The suspension is on the soft side which makes for a comfortable ride in most conditions, but may be an issue for heavier riders (200+ pounds) because the bike might bottom out on occasion, especially with any type of aggressive riding. New cams are absolutely essential, it was the last mod i did so i can tell the difference it made, not a grind ( webcam are a joke seriously) but new cam, with higher longer lift and propper surface hardening process. Book your next tour with confidence with Ride Expeditions. Obviously its a great bike for a beginner like myself, but I can't help but feel like its a piece of crap compared to the X. Source: www.ebay.com. Depending on what type of trails youre doing, the CRF250F is better for trail riding. CONVENIENCE ELECTRIC STARTER. I cant believe people have the time to go on and on about sh#$ they don't know. and although the gas tank is smaller than the Yamaha's, that's compensated for by the increased fuel economy of the fuel-injection. Thats show business . Any cookies that may not be particularly necessary for the website to function and is used specifically to collect user personal data via analytics, ads, other embedded contents are termed as non-necessary cookies. The F in CRF simply means four-stroke. Theyre good because theyre reliable, soft, and plush to soak up rocks, logs and roots on the trails. From the flooded trails of Cambodia, to the hilltop tracks in Laos, our trail riding holidays will make you smile from sunrise to sunset. This is not only dangerous for the bike, but you as well. Kawasaki KLX 140 Review: Which Size Model Is Best For You? The Honda and Yamaha share the same MSRP at $5199, though the Hondas ABS-fitted option (which we tested) checks in at $5499. Technically, its a full-size bike with a 21-inch front wheel and an 18-incher in the rear, but its just a little shy of life-sized. I live in Thailand where the KLX 250 is produced. They are somewhat limited until they get modified. You gotta pay attention to the suffix in the name to understand the intended market for this bike. With a long, motocross-style seat, you can move forward and back, left and right with ease, helping you navigate challenging terrain in comfort. Takes about 10 minutes to take of the plastic cover on the rear left side to replace the part. Guaranteed 100% refund for all trips cancelled by us & financial failure insurance included as standard. Went through it, incrementally. We also use third-party cookies that help us analyze and understand how you use this website. I'm pretty sure an L however has a very similar motor to the X/R, enough so that it can receive similar mods however it is very detuned and has less then 20 hp. HONDA CR-125 CR-250 2000-2001 BULL - MXG.ONE - Best Moto Decals mxg.one. Shopping Middleweight Adventure-Tourers: A Comparison, Honda Announces Next Round of Returning Models for 2023, 43mm inverted Showa fork, nonadjustable; 9.8-in. I had my flame shield on so thanks for understanding I'm very new to all of this. Anyway from what I've seen online it looks like the 250F (39Hp) has more horsepower than the 300L (27.3Hp). Out of these, the cookies that are categorized as necessary are stored on your browser as they are essential for the working of basic functionalities of the website. function ml_webform_success_5767537(){try{window.top.location.href="https://motocrosshideout.com/oto-3/"}catch(o){window.location.href="https://motocrosshideout.com/oto-3/"}}
. On the flip side, if the power is pretty weak until about 6k RPM and then goes up much quicker until about 12k RPM, its harder to ride because it has more of a hit that will put you back on the rear of the seat you also have to rev it up more to get it to accelerate, which means that picking the right gear to ride in is more important. Agreed, the WR250R is a fantastic trail bike, but with the price being so much higher than that of the KLX and CRF we dont think it is a fair comparison. After retiring all of the trusty Honda XRsfromourtour bike fleetin Southeast Asia and we needed to decideon their replacement. The King is dead, long live the King. We chose this engine displacement because of its versatility and popularity, as it is a good all-around engine size for both experienced and non-experienced riders. This was done because the 250 was going to arrive late in the year and Honda had to have that segment covered. 12:57You're welcome!Bike: 2020 Honda CRF250FCamera: GoPro Hero 7 Black-----Instagram @ytmotojake To answer your questions I'm in Idaho and would not need a street legal bike but I'm lucky that I live in a state that allows the conversion with no need to go the "out of state plate" route. The Kawa was also 400.00 less on the road , thats a fair bit towards any future mods..
This is better for jumps and whoops, but not for tight single track trails. This allows you to ride and not annoy anyone close by because it sounds like a sewing machine going by. Don't buy the 250F and convert it into street legal. Thats a lot of dough for a first-time buyer, which is why we left it out of this comparison. Some buyers will think they're basically buying a street-er-ized version of a CRF-250R in the process. It works well on the dual-purpose guise having been given a smaller 36mm throttle body and a longer, narrower exhaust header to extend the midrange. These Honda dirt bikes have very distinct characteristics and are completely different types of bikes. Compared to the Honda and Yamaha, the KLXs suspension does a better job soaking up the bumps and doesnt run out of wheel travel nearly as soon as the Honda or Yamaha. But youll still have stiff suspension if youre an average size rider, making it harsh and uncomfortable on most trails. For more info and detailed specs, visit the manufacturer's websites: The first video shows just how many mods can be done to these bikes. Electric starting is a big help on cold mornings, or if you need to restart out on the trail. And thats before themods! Its harder to ride and will wear you out quicker, but the powerful engine is best for racing on a motocross track. It's light, simple, fuel-efficient, and features plenty of power and torque in all areas, along with smooth power deliveryideal for a wide range of rider experience. 2.75-21 in. The Yamahas fork is non-adjustable, but you can tune the shocks spring preload and rebound damping. The overall dimensions on the two bikes is compact too, maybe a little more so on the Kawi than the Honda. The suspension is quite good, too, but suffers the same issues as the CRF250Lits quite soft and bottoms easily as soon as the pace picks up. Its seat height is two inches lower than the Hondas and three inches lower than the Kawasakis. I read this somewhere. His bike is nearly new and already both rims are fooked due to the suspension. The L weighs a whooping 322 lbs. The Honda 250F is brand new so there may not be many aftermarket parts yet, but the Yamaha TT-R230 will have plenty of parts to choose from. The KLX230 is new to Kawasakis dual-sport lineup. Because I am technically comparing the 2019 CRF450L and the 2018 CRF250L against each other. Its also made of a tougher compound too our KLX inCambodiawas dropped and plastic snapped far too easily. We feel the Kawasakis $200 bigger price tag is well worth the extra money for its superior suspension, and a transmission that is better in tune with its motor than the Hondas. The 250 is very new and I think it will make a suitable similar fun bike. These Honda dirt bikes have very distinct characteristics and are completely different types of bikes. The CRF250F doesnt have a headlight, and it isnt street-legal, so if youre looking for that, the CRF250L dual-sport is more in your lane. I'd say the source IS about the 250R but in the end I think the CRF250F fits my bill and if I had the need I could easily convert it to street legal. The heavier weight makes you feel more stable, especially at high speeds. Competition is a good thing though, and hopefully Yamaha will step up to the plate and redesign the TT-R230 in the near future. I like the dual sport.. But while thats a win for the green bike,Little Red gets the vote on the powerof the stock machine as its got that little bit more bite that you need. These are not words you want to hear. The exhaust is a full Euro 3 compliant unit with an internal catalytic converter. We wouldnt dream of using this bike on our tours without modifications. Kawasaki KLX 140 Review: Which Size Model Is Best For You? The XT has changed little since its re-birth in 2013 when it got fuel injection and a few other goodies. You also have the option to opt-out of these cookies. Dirt Bike Magazine - Best selling off road motorcycle magazine. A CRF250R would be better at more open, fast-paced trails if you have the skill to ride aggressively. Having plush forks and shock make learning to ride more comfortable and forgiving because they absorb more of the rough terrain at low speeds. Fuel economy only down about 10% compared to the stock ECU. WR250R vs. CRF250L Comparison. However, Honda gives you a whole other motorcycle option in the $6299 CRF250L Rally, but thats crossing into an entirely different realm of riding. Beginner dirt bikes come in a wide variety of sizes, and the full-size beginner dirt bike from Yamaha is the TT-R230, with Honda offering the brand-new fuel-injected CRF250F for 2019. With the big K often struggling with Suzuki to keep up with Honda and Yamaha, the need to streamline their range must be ever present. Whats the best mods to make to a KLX and in what order of benefit per dollar? Honda, could release a slew of changes to the 2019 CRF250L when compared against the 2018 CRF250L and if that happens then I will update this comparison page as well as break down all of the changes to the 2019 CRF250L VS 2018 CRF250L for you guys . What kind of riding are you trying to do?. While most dirt bikes are pretty stinkin reliable these days, the maintenance required between these Honda 250 dirt bikes are quite a bit different, depending on how you ride. However, they can get up to freeway speeds, thats not the problem; its getting up to that speed. A quick swap on the strangling pipe that Honda have fitted to a far more free breathing FMF version releases the horses like opening all the stable doors at once. The crf250f looks really tempting to, I may wait a while until i can get a used one cheaper, or until honda updates the crf250l. In comparison the KLX250 feels much more natural. Thanks for your input, Per Anderson could you please post the company name or how I would be able to buy that aftermarket ECU in the U.S., your option seems to be the easiest way to get more power without all the other mods, thankyou, We use a unit from EJK heres the website http://electronicjetkit.com/, The klx has big potential for upgrades but it comes at a cost. The results, when matched to a new 14/45 sprocket setupare an astounding improvement over stock and release the potential in this dependable little motor. We use cookies to improve your experience on this website and so that ads you see online can be tailored to your online browsing interests. One thing to keep in mind though, the 250f is not a full size bike, more like 7/8ths, and the suspension is pretty soft, probably set up for 150-180lbs. Beginner dirt bikes come in a wide variety of sizes, and the full-size beginner dirt bike from Yamaha is the TT-R230, with Honda offering the brand-new fuel-injected CRF250F for 2019. Will you need a street legal bike? It still has enough low-end torque for trail riding, but it's also heavier than the 230 trail bike . crf250r graphics crf honda stickers decal kits 2009 crf450r crf250 sticker crf450 backgrounds 2010 decals 250r 450r. The front forks are only adjustable for compression damping, but the rear can be tweaked for preload, compression and rebound damping. Maybe you dont even know where to start, or maybe you know how to ride but arent sure if you have all the right techniques. By clicking Accept, you consent to the use of ALL the cookies. Most people rarely use all of that peak horsepower, so you want to look at the power numbers below peak and see how smooth that line is. How far? (Dont worry, we didnt forget about it entirely in this comparison, nor Kawasakis new KLX230.). It has less than 20 horsepower, but with good low-end torque, its easy to ride and great for casual trail riding. Yoshimura also makes cam for it that get even more power, 37 hp on the 300 jug i was told by the tuner but the power band is really high and torque takes a hit at low rev as its titanium thus very light. Some are good, some arent. On 5/9/2021 at 10:38 AM, jimmythumps said: When you buy through links on our site, we may earn an affiliate commission. The Honda got its first and only upgrade in 2017 since its 2012 debut, while the Kawasaki got a significant enhancement in 2018 after a brief hiatus from Kawis lineup. Great write up but Im astounded the WR250R didnt get a look in?? Great comparison, thanks! The motor is just tuned for a different power delivery that the other two. It is mandatory to procure user consent prior to running these cookies on your website. All Rights Reserved. Some mods such as an aftermarket air filter and larger sprockets aren't crazy expensive, especially if you can do the work yourself. The suspension is on the soft side which makes for a comfortable ride in most conditions, but may be an issue for heavier riders (200+ pounds) because the bike might bottom out on occasion, especially with any type of aggressive riding. New cams are absolutely essential, it was the last mod i did so i can tell the difference it made, not a grind ( webcam are a joke seriously) but new cam, with higher longer lift and propper surface hardening process. Book your next tour with confidence with Ride Expeditions. Obviously its a great bike for a beginner like myself, but I can't help but feel like its a piece of crap compared to the X. Source: www.ebay.com. Depending on what type of trails youre doing, the CRF250F is better for trail riding. CONVENIENCE ELECTRIC STARTER. I cant believe people have the time to go on and on about sh#$ they don't know. and although the gas tank is smaller than the Yamaha's, that's compensated for by the increased fuel economy of the fuel-injection. Thats show business . Any cookies that may not be particularly necessary for the website to function and is used specifically to collect user personal data via analytics, ads, other embedded contents are termed as non-necessary cookies. The F in CRF simply means four-stroke. Theyre good because theyre reliable, soft, and plush to soak up rocks, logs and roots on the trails. From the flooded trails of Cambodia, to the hilltop tracks in Laos, our trail riding holidays will make you smile from sunrise to sunset. This is not only dangerous for the bike, but you as well. Kawasaki KLX 140 Review: Which Size Model Is Best For You? The Honda and Yamaha share the same MSRP at $5199, though the Hondas ABS-fitted option (which we tested) checks in at $5499. Technically, its a full-size bike with a 21-inch front wheel and an 18-incher in the rear, but its just a little shy of life-sized. I live in Thailand where the KLX 250 is produced. They are somewhat limited until they get modified. You gotta pay attention to the suffix in the name to understand the intended market for this bike. With a long, motocross-style seat, you can move forward and back, left and right with ease, helping you navigate challenging terrain in comfort. Takes about 10 minutes to take of the plastic cover on the rear left side to replace the part. Guaranteed 100% refund for all trips cancelled by us & financial failure insurance included as standard. Went through it, incrementally. We also use third-party cookies that help us analyze and understand how you use this website. I'm pretty sure an L however has a very similar motor to the X/R, enough so that it can receive similar mods however it is very detuned and has less then 20 hp. HONDA CR-125 CR-250 2000-2001 BULL - MXG.ONE - Best Moto Decals mxg.one. Shopping Middleweight Adventure-Tourers: A Comparison, Honda Announces Next Round of Returning Models for 2023, 43mm inverted Showa fork, nonadjustable; 9.8-in. I had my flame shield on so thanks for understanding I'm very new to all of this. Anyway from what I've seen online it looks like the 250F (39Hp) has more horsepower than the 300L (27.3Hp). Out of these, the cookies that are categorized as necessary are stored on your browser as they are essential for the working of basic functionalities of the website. function ml_webform_success_5767537(){try{window.top.location.href="https://motocrosshideout.com/oto-3/"}catch(o){window.location.href="https://motocrosshideout.com/oto-3/"}}
. On the flip side, if the power is pretty weak until about 6k RPM and then goes up much quicker until about 12k RPM, its harder to ride because it has more of a hit that will put you back on the rear of the seat you also have to rev it up more to get it to accelerate, which means that picking the right gear to ride in is more important. Agreed, the WR250R is a fantastic trail bike, but with the price being so much higher than that of the KLX and CRF we dont think it is a fair comparison. After retiring all of the trusty Honda XRsfromourtour bike fleetin Southeast Asia and we needed to decideon their replacement. The King is dead, long live the King. We chose this engine displacement because of its versatility and popularity, as it is a good all-around engine size for both experienced and non-experienced riders. This was done because the 250 was going to arrive late in the year and Honda had to have that segment covered. 12:57You're welcome!Bike: 2020 Honda CRF250FCamera: GoPro Hero 7 Black-----Instagram @ytmotojake To answer your questions I'm in Idaho and would not need a street legal bike but I'm lucky that I live in a state that allows the conversion with no need to go the "out of state plate" route. The Kawa was also 400.00 less on the road , thats a fair bit towards any future mods..